I'm currently going through this game again and decided to see if there was any updates to the wiki. the original wiki I've gone to hasn't seen much activity, but you appear to continuously add more info to yours. and I can offer some help if you like.
Currently, I'm playing with the american campaign and I've been personally cataloguing all the parts I'm picking up. I don't know much in terms of the real-life history of the ships and such as you have added, but I can start fleshing out the stats for American parts for Commander (I never played the other games of the series). also I think there can be some slight improvements into organizing the stats.
I'm really interested in trying to figure out the exact mechanics behind many aspects of the game. for example exactly how hull and deck plating reduces damage (actual formula involved).
I welcome your help Hadien, I also have been wanted to find the real mechanics. I do know this much though, Metatology research improves the HP of all your ships. Engine Research improves the speed of all your ships. Elextronics improves your purge, radar, and sonar capibilities. As this is the case, I have been trying to gain info on all craft using a game file with Max Tech levels. I'm not trying to discourage you, I really do desire the help, I just ask that you make note of your tech levels when writting statistics so we may better understand the formula involved :)
Yeah I know at least that much about the tech levels from reading the manual. I just don't know by how much. and I didn't catalogue the tech levels of the parts required for them to be open to purchase. I know its not going to be as simple finding the tech levels since parts may require different tech levels at different strengths. I want to try and use a codebreaker or somesuch for infinite money so that I can go through each level one by one in one sitting. but right now I don't have access to such.
and as for the template. I'm still working on it here (for others to find it). currently, I can't get it to detect all the fields at the moment so I'm still running some debugging on it
That would be helpful, you could try something called GameShark, also GameStop had a CodeBreaker for the PS2 some time ago. I used the GameStop program in order to get max tech levels. I found out that the statistic for aircraft differ from game to game, as too does the ships.
No I have my own Codebreaker, I just can't find it at the moment. I wanted to bring this to you attention though. to save some time, I decided to load up other saves of my game in an attempt to fill in the gaps on certain parts I don't have. I quickly found out that the Hulls and FWD/AFT bridges (and obviously aircraft and pre-built ships) actually have different stats depending on the country.
For example, a Japanese CC FWD Type V Bridge has the following stats:
price: 5000, weight: 40, Control: 72
Radar: 14, Sonar: 4
However an American CC FWD Type V Bridge has these stats:
price: 4700, weight: 35, Control: 70
Radar: 12, Sonar: 4
American's version may have slighly worse stats, but they can have access to even better Bridges, while for the Japanese, Type V is the best they can ever get. Everything else however, Weapons, Engines, and even Escorts, has the same stats as far as I can tell.
on a separate note, while I was editing my template, I somehow made many duplicates of the page (and its /doc page) and I unwittingly created a couple duplicates in public space. I would delete them but I can't seem to figure out how. so instead I've decided to use that page. I've updated it, but ultimately leave it's fate in your hands (understandable, it seems only admins can delete pages). If you like it then you can already start using it on some pages, if not you can delete/edit it.
I'll have to consider the template, as the stats of aircraft vary from game to game, and some games have more stats then others. Thanks for bringing the hulls to my attention. When you do get around to adding some more information to the wiki check out our Index page to see what we have, and what we lack. Also recent activity has a section to the right that lists projects in need of attention. If you decide to create a page for American Parts, Japanese Parts, or just Bridges in general remember to note what your save file's Electronics tech level is, should said level not be max.
Added a Ship Armor armor page a little while back because I found out how the armor weight is calculated. Not 100% sure how Armor mitigates damage, but I placed in how I think it works (placed a disclaimer that its just speculation). As time goes by we can work on it and fix anything wrong about it. but for now it gives the page some meat to start with.
I'm also figuring out the mechanics on other aspects of the game at the moment. It appears that Hull defenses follow a similar pattern of improvment as Ship Armor as far a Metallurgy goes (in that defense improves every 5 tech levels at 6,11,16,21,and 26), however its slightly more involved in that different hulls per different countries improve at different rates. I don't have all the hulls so I can't see if there is a pattern from hull to hull. Currently, I don't have enough data on this to make a deicated page yet.
I'm also figuring out how mission rewards is calculated (kill points, Special Bonus, etc.). Again, not enough to make a page, but I have uncovered how a lot of it is determined.
Also working on the Index page. First adding a link to Ship armor, then fleshing out a whole bunch of other empty links to things I know to be present in at least Commander. For example, from what I've read Warship gunner doesn't have escort ships. but I listed all possible escorts found in Commander. some escorts I haven't aquired yet but I know exist. however I'm uncertain of their ship class so these escorts (which I haven't placed empty links on) may belong to other classes
Very well done, you have been very insightful in providing this data as well as disclaimer. It is true that Warship Gunner does not have Escort ships, the closet to them are craft from the Freedom Forces as well as the other ships that enter the power surge with the player's ship. Among them being your ships sister ship which is destoryed by Imperial Forces. It's actually quite amazing how much the Index has grown in a single edit.
I don't recall ever aquiring a sub as an escort in Commander, thus I'll have to look into this.
Sub escorts really aren't all that great, not many things can attack them, but the things that can will usually kill them in a couple hits, plus while their torpedoes can do decent damage, their low range, rate of fire, hit rate, and limited targeting area make them a poor ship to keep in formation. setting them to indiviual pursuit might make them more effective, but they'll become extremely vulnerable to anti-sub fire. hmm. I kinda want to sick these guys on a couple superships since I don't recall most of them having any anti-sub weapons, especially the later ones.
The subs can be found at:
Submarine A: S from D-5, A from E-3, and A from *D-1
Submarine B: S from E-8
Submarine C: A from *B-α
Submarine D: A from *B-7, and A from *B-α
New Submarine A: S from *B-7, and A from *B-α
New Submarine B: S from *B-7, and A from *B-α
New Submarine C: S from *E-5
New Submarine D: S from *E-5
They might be found in a couple more locations, but those places have been confirmed having them. I have a copy of Tankboy's drop list FAQ from gamefaqs on my PC. and I've been adding things I've found myself to it (since its not complete, but still very comprehensive). if you need to know where to find a part, I know where it is. actually getting it is another issue.
for example on my American file I know where you can get a Sil laser, but no matter how many times I've tried the drops aren't in my favor (in those missions with the drop rates so low, compounded by numerous our items that drop, result in a very low chance of getting the item you want). Sil laser and Massive Wave Gun (for obvious reasons) are the only weapons I don't have on the file, and I know the Americans can get them since theres an opening for them in their Log.
The sheer volume of information I have on the mission drops/rewards will kind of eclipses everything else on that page, given the current format of that rewards table. there are 158 missions in the game and missions, on average, have ~10 unique items that are awarded. I can link to the original FAQ however it hasn't been updated in years. what I can do is upload my updated version of his FAQ and my excel file I'm using to catalogue part to my Google Drive so that you can access it too (bit of heads-up on the excel file, I'll sometimes have random numbers strewn about as I'm trying to find patterns, and thus fomulas to different things)
it would probably be better to create one Submarine (escort) page and list where one can find all submarine escorts in the game there, rather than use the NO:C page to list where you can find everything in the game (theres ~700 different items one can collect per nation). that said I think I might go back to the index and remake those empty links for the escort section.
As for the special rewards section. now this is small enough that I think its fine placing on the NO:C page. for example, sink 500 cruisers grants the cruise missle would fit, but where to find the 2-hull battleship should not.
Still, it would be nice to have access to collaspable tables so one can show/hide extremely large tables if a user isn't interested in the info.
This was just hilarious...What, may I ask, is the most impressive feat you have ever pulled off in the series? for me... I would have to say killing a supership using only a light machinegun.
I've been making test runs at the Supership Dual Crater in an attempt to more understand how ship armor mitigation works. I was testing to see how fast certain weapons can bring down a ship. I was going off the assumption that the ship had 38cm deck/hull plating to match it's main gun. and then I began testing how much it would take for certain weapons to kill it. ( it has 11,800 hp)
first I was using Me262 HGII since they'll strafe with a rocket shell that does 300 damage per rocket (and they fire 6 per salvo), and they would sink it after about 17-18 salvos depending on their machine guns. then used some Ho IXB with their guided bombs (they drop 3 per salvo). the 675 damage per bomb let them sink it in about 7-9 salvos. then I decided to load up another save and used a Light Railgun (1000 per shell, shoots 2 shells per turret per salvo) to sink it after ~10 shots. and finally the Railgun Astal (5000 damage, single shot per salvo) sinking it in 4 hits.
After running the math on each situation it appears ship armor will reduce damage by a flat amount as I listed on the page, or by a percent equal to the armor thickness, whichever would reduce more damage. So the 38cm armor was reducing damage from all of these weapons by 38% (except the Me262HGII's rockets and machineguns which got the flat reduction since that blocked more damage).
but I also noticed that certain things like machine guns dealt damage even though they do like 30 damage. it seems all weapons are entitled to deal at least 1 point in damage after reductions. and so to prove my hypothesis I souped up a battleship with just 8 30mm CIWS and as much armor/auxilary defenses I could fling on it and set him after Dual Crater (brought no escorts)
after about 5 minutes of hugging the supership and mashing the X button like mad I sunk the ship. I myself sustained quite alot of damage (27% life at mission end), but that was mostly from secondary damage. going through it a 2nd time but with a good luck charm, I came through with 88% life (thats after taking direct hits from guns and rockets for 5 straight minutes)
I just updated the aircraft infobox template. Hopefully, this will help address some inital requirements that needed to be met in the template. however I don't know all of the stats for the other games. nonetheless I think its a marked improvement of the last template. I think the styling might be a little too much but it does help in minimizing metadata ( I don't have to say every time this one stat is for the Commander game, its color-coded to show you). still the infobox is a bit big...I'll need to see how it fits onto a page before I'll start messing with the size.
either way, I hope you like the example I made.
also I just bested my machinegun vs supership feat. I sank a supership by ramming it (not with a drillship). I was testing to see how special warhead weapons worked on superships (turns out they get bonus resistances against them), and ran out of ammo, so I finished it off by ramming it for about 5 minutes hahaha.
Very Nice! Alright, you have the go ahead to make a page using the template :)
In addition, your feet is highly impressive. I shall have to take the time to examine the results of your tests.
Your template does indeed, respond to the initial requirements. However, I have noticed some information lacking that can be easily added or changed. For example, defense should be Endurance. Craft in Commander only have Endurance while craft in Warship gunner and possibley the third game also have Airborne Endurance. Once these are added all shall be ready to take flight.
Yeah I was wondering if I should call it endurance. the manual for Commander calls it endurance, however everywhere in the game (Commander) calls it defense. however to bring it upto consistency with the outher games I have no trouble calling it endurance.
I've updated ship armor, I feel that I've come to an effective grasp of how ship armor works, to the point that I've figured exactly how many 68cm guided torpedoes it takes to sink the extremely thick-hulled Harima (51cm hull).
btw I've refound respect for torpedoes, the later versions are...extremely...good. its only fair that their largest limiting factor is their ammo. Burst torpedoes are still crap though.
theres still alot of other weapons I still need to test however, because I've skipped a few that obviously used special mechanics (like Special Warheads, flamethrowers, and to a lesser extent rail guns). and I still haven't tested optical weapons.
Thanks for your work, I was going to come back and say that we should drop the template until I saw what you did with the Me262A. It will take a lot of work to convert all the Aircraft pages to this template however it will be worth it.
yeah, I've been hesitant in editing pages at the moment. right now I've been running weapons tests on a number of superships both to find out more about their stats and to see how certain weapons behave. I've narrowed down the hull thicknesses of most superships quite easily.
however certain superships (muspelheim, all the drillships, Habakkuk) have special mechanics to them which make it a bit of a chore to figure out exactly how much damage I'm dealing to them. For instance Muspelheim's has different hull thickness on the battship portion and carrier portions, plus its also kinda counted as 3 ships and thus can be hit upto 3 times by some weapons that can passthrough (its also why it glitches out of control if you steer into it, especially around it's stern). and Habakkuk actually has bonus resistances against most weapons, but "New flamethrowers" have a significant damage boost against it compared to other superships (easily 250 damage per shot, AFTER resistances)
also most of the later superships (Harima and Habakkuk for example) gain certain enigmatech auxilaries at specific HP percentages... meaning they can have anywhere from 500 to 9000 more HP than what is listed in their Log screen.
continuing my work with templates I made another one to help in aircraft navigation. aircraft index (plane order matches the order as listed in the games log screen) is something you place at the bottom of every aircraft page to let the user to easily move on to another plane. When I'm done with it and set it in public space, all you have to type in the source of a plane's page is:
Of course I'm not done with the template as theres still alot of missing aircraft and I still need to figure out where some go exactly. plus I'm not sure if some aircraft are under different classes depending on the game (like interceptor in one game, but fighter in another). but in making it I've found out how to make collapsible tables, which is awesome. still can't use my own CSS classes though, forcing me to use inline styling which I'm not a fan of. in the end I hope templates such as these can be used on many more pages than just aircraft, like prebuilt ships.
back to editing pages, I don't have any capture card nor do I know where I can get paintings of all these aircraft plus I have little knowlege of the planes in real life, so when I come across a new page I can't say I'd add much. also I'm wondering if we should make in-depth pages for each mission in the game, like what are the objectives, what ships can be found where, etc.
oh and I discovered that Flamethrower guns have 2 unique mechanics to them, first of all they ignore all forms of damage mitigation (armor, em shields, etc.), making them extremely effective against ships with very heavy defenses but way outclassed vs. frail ships. secondly, unlike any other weapon, their damage is variable, dealing more damage the closer the target is. so it does it's listed damage at max range, but upto 10 times that at point blank (the smaller your ship the closer you can get to them).
Their are indeed some aircraft that are different classes depending on games.
If you make a page with the statistics of the aircraft I can try to fill in the history and image.
Most of the images I find I find by looking up [Aircraft Name] Box Art, saving the image, and then removing the wording from the box leaving the image behind. Sometimes simply looking up Model Boxart [Aircraft Name] helps as well.
If you discover how to make collapsible tables I would be very interested in learning how to create them.
Most of my historical information comes from either Wikipedia or Military History Sites as the English Wikipedia has little information on Modern American, and British aircraft that are still in service.
Collapsiable sections need at least 2 wrapper tags, preferbly Div tags. the outlying tag marks everything that is part of the collapsible section , while the inner div contains everything that you may want to be hidden . everything inbetween the 2 tags will be considered as the "title" section and will always be visible even when you try to hide the stuff. now the way you let the page know you want to use collapsible content you need to add the following CSS classes to the outside Div tag:mw-collapsible. while the inside div needs this class: mw-collapsible-content. this is the very minimum you need to use collapsibles, and the wiki can do the rest
in my example I also have a mw-collapsed class. this will tell the wiki that when the page loads the section should be hidden by default. I also added two other attributes which are apart of the collapsible documentaion: data-expandtext and data-collapsetext. what you put in these fields will tell the wiki what to say for the "expand/collapse" links used to actually show/hide the content. you may also notice I have an extra div tag. the 2nd div I'm using to store the "title" of the content. its sitting in between the other 2 div tags that have those important classes, so the wiki will assume this middle tag is the title.
hopefully that helps. I can start working on the stats of planes. I don't have all the stats for the planes yet. for example the tech levels for some later aircraft haven't been fully discovered yet, and I've quickly found out that the manual has too many typos in that section for me to use (most of it is correct, but just enough are wrong that I can't use it). I've just finished F-10 for the germans and so I got stats on all of their planes but 2, the one "joke" plane, the Dragonfly you can get in *G-1, and that special scout plane which I assume is the Fledermaus which you might be able to get in *E-5 (unconfirmed).
I'll go ahead an add that index template at the end of all the pages to save on re-editing all the pages in the future. don't worry my template is only in my userspace so the pages won't actually render it. but once we get the index all fleshed out I can make it in the public space and all the aircraft pages will update retroactively.
I thought I should bring this up. I noticed you called a number of aircraft for Commander "Fighter" and not "Interceptor". Of course you were taking this information from the manual, but this is one of the many things the manual messed up.
To the manual, "Fighter" means "Interceptor" and "Torpedo Bomber" means "Fighter". While the information you've provided is accurate in the sense of the manual, I will nonetheless update all these planes to reflect what they are "in-game". As that, more or less, is what matters.
I really should confirm this, though I can say from my work with Warship Gunner that their are times when the the class is different. You are right however that what they are in-game is what matters most.
And so I have confirmed all aircraft for the germans. The Fledermaus was most likely the inital name of the Foxbat and not in the game. The last Scout is the Wendigo which I have just acquired via spending a few hours of sinking to 999 carriers (which was NOT worth the effort). The only other plane I do not have for the germans is the Dragonfly, which I would have to replay the entire campaign up to at least *G-1 to get, and I've just finished F-10. For now I'll complete what I can for the german air force and then start up a British campaign.
I agree with you on the Fledermaus and enjoy you contributions to German Aircraft pages (Germany is my favorite faction in the games). Our British forces could use some help, as the Brits have the least articles on this wiki (if you exclude the Empire, Virshia, Wilkia, and the Freedom Forces). I'm interesting in geting to know what this Dragonfly is, as I had it listed as a reward in Naval Ops: Commander.
Each of the nations get a "joke" plane which looks like an insect. for the Germans its a Dragonfly (it literally looks like a giant dragonfly). they're planes you get in the G area. G area, ofcourse is where Microcabin grew a sense of humor and threw toy ducks and swan boats at you. I don't have the stats for the Dragonfly, but I do have the stats for the American version, the "Black Dragonfly".
It's 12 mount 20mm machine guns and 12 guided bombs lets it do good damage, but its overall stats are completely laughable. Its fragile, slow, and the Americans have many other planes that can easily out damage it. Whats worse is that its classified as an interceptor. with its speed, it'll waste its time trying to catch other planes that easily fly 3 times it's speed, even though its tons better at taking out surface targets.
Currently, I've been reverse-engineering the formula to how the game calculates a ship's top speed. it's using 3 hidden variables, maybe less if I can work on simplfing its formula some more. At the moment I'm unsure if they are the same from Hull to Hull and Nation to Nation (I don't think so, I think its a part of what makes one better than the other). but so far I can predict how fast my current ship can go with given weight and engine output. sometimes its off by 0.1 knots but I think thats from internal rounding in the formula. Past a certain point (less than 1771 tons for my current hull) the formula changes at least a little (unsure since with my current formula i'd get imaginary numbers so I don't know how close it still is), and its a little hard finding the formula while that low and still having engines
I've updated my aircraft index template. I thought it might be easier to navigate if I divided the index on a per game basis. I still need to confirm the location of just 4 more planes in Commander (I know the names of the planes and their nationalities, just not where they go exactly in the log). Since I don't have either of the Warship gunners I'll need someone else to fill those lists.
I have information on pretty much all the aircraft in the game now save for their complete tech levels. As in some aircraft require certain levels in multiple tech fields and I've only confirmed the level in one field. As for the japanese planes I need to go through another playthrough in that game to find their tech levels, but I do have their stats.
I can probably use the same style here for creating an index for prebuilt ships. which by the way I must say the Japanese has a HUGE log list of Prebuilts. The American, British, and German have 24, 20, and 21 prebuilt ships respectively. but the Japanese? They have 90 Prebuilt slots in their Log. In reality you'll only have access to about 25 of them. what I think is that this is where the game stores most of the enemy ships in the game. Or they are special prebuilts orignally planned that you can get in mission rewards, but removed.
for example on extreme rare occasions I was awarded a "Mutuki Class" in A-1 in both German and British Campaigns (unconfirmed in american/japanese campaigns). Since the british and germans have no Log slot for that item they can never use it, much less look at it. I haven't yet been awarded that item for the Japanese campaign, but I assume it to either be a Japanese prebuilt, or the game mistakingly awarding an enemy NPC ship.
anyhow take a gander at my template concept and see if you like it, if you want you can move this page into public space and all the aircraft pages I've made upto now will update with it.
Nice, it's late so I'll probably get around to it latter. I've been involved in a writting/rp project which has taken much of my time, destracting me form Naval Ops, and the progress you have made here.
Good news, the issues with my PS2 are only cable related (loose wires for video, and audio in & output) so I should be able to finish the Japanese Battlecarrier pages. I've added a layout page for Aircraft allow easy copy and past fill in of information.
I suppose I could choose the next one, I don't know the name of the giant flying saucer off hand however in an attempt to find the name of it I came across the Super Battlecarrier Musspellheim which can befound in stage E-6 of Naval Ops: Commander. At least one video exists on youtube of a fight with the craft and from what I can tell finding a good picture from it's entrance may be difficult. It is armed with a super laser, several smaller lasers, and large arrays of High Angle Guns.
The UFO in question is Brillodein, found at D-10 in Commander. And Musspelheim is actually one of the best bosses I ever faced! I especiall enjoyed it in Commander, or rather, feared it, due to it A. Being a improved version of Trollslegur, and B. I got sank via the railgun it had on it's bow XD. ANYHOW, thanks for the advice dude.
I had forgotten the name of this ship, all I could remember was how in Naval Ops: Commander the ships was a Monarch of Verishia's Royal Battleship. At least, I think, I remember thier was a double decked battleship that had a white and red paint job and royal crest on both bows.
I did some looking into it and I was more then likely confused, the ship I was thinking of was most likely the Dual Crater. No, that can't be right. Do you have any idea what ship I might be thinking of?
I can indeed confirm that Harima is the ship with the red paint job and royal crest. I compared it to Harima from Warship Gunner 2, seems that they've gotten rid of the crest in that game. Hope I helped.